Emily Easley: 0:03

some of the new longer duration storage technologies that are out there are really important to watch. And now, I mean, I certainly think that, you know, batteries, wherever they are, are going to be what helps us get through all of the changing dynamics between demand and supply.

Tom Raftery: 0:23

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Climate Confident podcast, the number one podcast showcasing best practices in climate emission reductions and removals. And I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Don't forget to click follow on this podcast in your podcast app of choice to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hi everyone. And welcome to episode 168 of the climate confident podcast. My name is Tom Raftery. And before we kick off today's show, I want to take a moment to talk about a new feature I've rolled out in this podcast. Starting this last couple of days, it's now possible to send me a message directly from the podcast. It's very straightforward. As you look into the show notes of this or any episode, you'll see a link right at the top saying, send me a message. If you click on that link, it'll open up the messaging app on your phone or on your computer. You can type in a message there. And it comes to me. Be aware. When the messaging app opens up. It will have a number on it, which is the number of this podcast followed by the text. Do not remove. Leave the number and the do not remove text there. Type in your message and I will receive it. If it's a question, I'll try and answer it on the next episode. If it's a suggestion, I might read it out if you don't want it read out, say so. Be aware. I do not get to see the phone number. For privacy reasons. So do sign your message. If you leave a message, do sign, let me know who you are, where you're from. And what it is you want to say. Leave comments, leave questions, anything like that? I'd love to hear it from you. Okay. With that out of the way. On with the show. With me on the show today. I've my special guest, Emily. Emily. Welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Emily Easley: 2:22

Hi, Tom. Good to see you again. Yeah, happy, happy to introduce myself. I'm Emily Easley founder of Novus Energy Advisors a boutique consulting and advisory firm that I started about a decade ago. And, you know, after now, 20 years in the energy business, it's evolved across all the technologies. And we work with companies big and small on, you know, trying to, make smart, wise decisions and investments across the energy landscape. And I'm excited to be here with you today. Just in, you know, your theme with your podcast and trying to find some positive opportunities and what seems to be kind of a chaotic macro environment politically. So, you

Tom Raftery: 3:06

Sure, sure, sure.

Emily Easley: 3:06

Look forward to talking about it.

Tom Raftery: 3:08

Great. So before we get into that, let me just ask you quickly, who are your customers and what kind of problems are you solving for them?

Emily Easley: 3:19

So we primarily work with oil and gas companies and, and oil and gas professionals, I would say, like career professionals. So, this started in the early 2000s, I moved to D. C. and we were working with the electric utilities that were in a similar but different ballpark and trying to assess how their business models were going to change with the renewable penetration. And so Novus launched a similar service. But for you know, the corporates that are big public companies to small investment arms and helping them navigate what their their sweet spot is, their expertise, and then how to expand on that and not necessarily pivot but grow into this energy transition. And so, you know, it's now we're doing a lot of below the ground renewable decarbonization work. But it, you know, it started largely and it still does as to we need to watch every aspect of above the ground and it is just equally important.

Tom Raftery: 4:21

Okay, and what's your own background? How did you get into the energy space?

Emily Easley: 4:28

It's a great question. I mean, so, you know, and I think I alluded to this that I am, you know, all things energy all the time. I find it a fascinating industry, largely be early days as a little girl. I wanted to know what my dad was leaving the house to do every day and he was in the oil and gas business. And I wanted to understand how that you know, how his work came into, I can remember on Sunday mornings, like going to get you know, gasoline for the car right before church. And I mean, I can even remember the smell of it as a little girl. It was 99 cents, you know, and I kept asking him saying, is this what you do? You know, do you pump gas? No, no. Like, how does it relate to me? And then he'd nag about the light switches in the house of turning those off. And this is before any smart home, right, the eighties and say, is this what you do? You know, how does, how does. What your investments and he puts deals together, right? And so, from there, I went to Vanderbilt and and, you know, knew that I didn't necessarily have the capacity to study as hard as all those engineers out there. And And the technical challenges I had such respect for I wanted to get into the business side of it and we studied kind of the soft side of business at the time when Enron was kind of the rise and fall and it was fascinating to see what human capital had as far as leadership impact on on, you know businesses and so from there, you know, it was truly a soft side of business degree and case studies that to me, looking back, it's very similar to a lot of what you're seeing in ESG. You know, more boardroom oversight and we studied a lot of, like, how military organizations work and the successes of organizations and cultures. And so, I, you know, I just kept my interest in energy and at the time it was very early in the renewable space I'm from texas. That was not even anything that texas was doing and it was pre you know shale revolution and so I ended up in the solar business. It took a while. It took a while to get there. It you know I definitely tried a little bit of the political entry level interview routes, and that just wasn't meant for me. And so, I've stuck with it. I mean, and frankly, our business now has evolved where, very similar to the early days of working with the electric utilities, you know, we pull together information and then really make recommendations on who those experts are in these various fields. But looking at it from, okay, your business, your business strategy, where have you been successful in the past? Look at your own human capital and their capabilities. And then how are, how can you build a real strong business plan and platform to grow with all the change. So we, you know, I've, we've followed the policy, we look at the implications of changes of policy, we follow the technology and all of those that we know in the industry and where they're evolving. And then if you look at the different markets and kind of assessing where the, where the key opportunities are, you're going to be just a more intelligent operation overall.

Tom Raftery: 7:37

Sure, sure, sure. Plenty of changes happening in the market at the moment. We'll get into them, but before we do, I got to think it's got to be a little bit different being a woman in the energy space because a lot of the, a lot of that space is male dominated, particularly in Texas. Right?

Emily Easley: 7:56

It is. I mean, and I think, you know, I think I shared this with you before. I, I frankly, you know, enjoy it in a way that is it's more black and white I was in event planning early on and it was very female dominated but you know more so I think it's the expertise that And and back to your original question of how I got into it You know, I was a cheerleader in high school, right? Like I mean, but the so but I was always on this there's something else that was driving my interest. And so, I I think that You You know the world is so different than it was you know 20 years ago, you know, there's there's not a lot of diversity in the renewable business. There's a lot a lot of you know male figures there too. So it's changing. It's evolving. I mean, I think across the board attracting the the diversity to an industry that has traditionally been one way. It's just kind of part of it, but I don't think too much about it. And we work with some fabulous men and women.

Tom Raftery: 9:00

Okay, great. So tell me a little bit then about Novus about, you know, what are the, we've seen that there are a lot of changes happening at the moment. What are the big trends? What are the big things your customers are approaching you now to say, help me with this?

Emily Easley: 9:20

Sure. I mean, I think one example just in what the EPA ruled in the tailpipe regulation yesterday, that you look at that one component and EPA under different administrations has different thresholds, and so, but what, what does that ultimately do to the corporate decision making and where you're going to invest? And then how far upstream does that impact and what is realistic and in the pendulum, right? And so, you know, it's interesting for us because it does impact the oil and gas business. It does impact, you know, biofuels and, and, but it also is a new evolution right now of US manufacturing and the automakers are behind it. So if the automakers are behind it and they're investing in building out US cars that are also electric vehicles and there's incentives for it. It's a it's a complex issue, right? I mean, I I tend to wonder did it just make my Yukon price actually be more valuable because there's just going to be less of them. And I like my, you know, SUV that doesn't have to plug in. So, you know, and it's not to say that I'm not clearly very, very, environmentally conscious of everything. But for me, as a mom of three kids, like, I need to know that if the power goes out that I'm not gonna be without a car, without a vehicle to get out of that place. So, I mean, I think the world is changing and evolving, and we look at it from that holistic view. And then we say, Okay, you know, from an upstream company as you're looking at to do you ramp up production? Do you hedge? You know, how are you assessing what this could mean for you, not today, tomorrow, but in three years, in, or in five years under what is maybe post this first time former presidents running against each other, because, you know, once policy is announced and industry gets behind it, politicians can say everything that they want to say about what they intend to do and, and so it's important to know, well, what, what is the law, and historically, what has happened, because you can make some pretty good predictions on the future there. And so, you know, with that, you know, who we work with now compared to who we were working with 10 years ago It's, these are oil and gas executives largely that have moved into carbon capture and sequestration or, you know, in an effort to kind of maximize what their experience taught them as far as the geological elements of where these best locations are for storage. But then there's also a lot of interesting innovation going around the utilization of and, and so we've looked at from a market perspective, how do you ensure that not only you're kind of navigating the regulatory environment around this emerging industry that really is taking off globally, I know that you're seeing it abroad too. And then how do you ensure that, you know, our direct air capture clients that we really are just so in, in, in unbelievably impressed with their drive and what they're trying to conquer, but that it's clean power and then and it's reliable too. So there's a convergence of all of these factors

Tom Raftery: 12:44

Interesting, interesting. And just going back to the EV front for a second. I'm a third time EV owner. So, just when you talk about when the power goes out, not being able to charge your car. It's the same for a petrol car or a diesel car. If the power goes out, you can't fill them either because the pumps at fuel stations run on electricity as well. So, that, that typically wouldn't be an issue. The,

Emily Easley: 13:07

It's interesting though because I mean and this is just as a homeowner and you and I can talk about EVs offline is I clearly you know may be I mean the i'm actually annoyed at my oil light that keeps going time change your oil. I'm like that would be a nice one to not have to worry about. But the the point of I, I think big, more broadly, what is a bigger issue is cybersecurity and vulnerability to electricity just in general. So, you know, I, I say that as a side note of a personal view, but I do think from what's happening as far as control and electrification and kind of the vulnerability similar to what you saw with, you know, with Russia and Ukraine, like energy is a first line of mechanism for anybody being thrown off. And so, but I, but I, your third, I'm assessing, I'm like the EV stuff is, is the industry I mean, I got laughed out of a room seven years ago when I brought just the energy information from the the projections of the government which typically tend to be pretty conservative to the projections of evs. And this was in Houston oil and gas really expert. No way, there's no way and and then if you look at Elon Musk and he's he hasn't said he's supporting Trump yet but the second that that kind of starts to move forward like I don't know are we gonna have a Republican in office that's now not so anti EV, it just depends, right, where his backers are coming from.

Tom Raftery: 14:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's been a fascinating one to watch the, the evolution of Elon Musk from planet saving eco hero to right wing shit poster. So it's,

Emily Easley: 14:57

Well, I just, I, you know, I haven't, I need to do, you know, a little bit more, but if you start to actually look at was, was he, did he change or did the rhetoric change, right? Because right now for him to, the untapped market for his company are the right wing, non Tesla loving people. So I mean, I don't know who's I mean, I always caution and and and think through like if the intent is to align with your customers, he already aligned with all of the ones that needed to be aligned with. So now he's got to open up the door to the others. And I think I I mean, I think there's EV Hummers. I mean, he's got some stiff competition out there

Tom Raftery: 15:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. But given this is an election year and you mentioned the the, the new EPA regulations on tailpipe emissions that came out just yesterday or the day before, whatever it was, how likely are they to stay if Trump gets elected? For example, I know you said industry behind them broadly. But, let's say Trump gets elected, what's to stop him from tearing them up the day after he gets in, because day one he wants to be a dictator, I know he said already, so day two, what's to stop him tearing them up and, you know, going back to saying no, no rules whatsoever on emissions.

Emily Easley: 16:21

Well, you know, there's, there's only so far you can go with the EPA Clean Air Act. I mean, and so what is law? And then the mechanisms to reduce regulation, which always happens when you have a Republican come in office. And then the first day when a Democrat has historically come in office is the first thing they do is they go back to. So Biden went in and went back to Obamas Clean Air Act ruling. And but these policies if if you know and largely why I chose to be on the business side because of the pendulum pendulum swinging constantly, and in these different directions, and it just seems like a lot of lobbyist and attorney money that maybe could be spent on fighting climate, like, but, and I'll get to the SEC climate disclosures that I can't even imagine how much companies have spent on attorneys and lobbyists over the last two years on this and it stalled again. And the whole intent, I mean, if we, if we had them all disclose what they've spent just on their legal bills and the liability and the concern and what that could have been invested in rather than, you know, fighting it. So I'm not a litigator. It's not been one I, I choose to be forward thinking and watch them and to see how far and likely it can it can actually evolve and, and change, but to the point of just even taking, you know, these, the, the, the automaker and tailpipe rulings. He, once a policy is in place, like, the voluntary market also is paying attention, and the capital markets are as well. And so the investments in U. S. manufacturing are significant that it's all it's coming out of this Inflation Reduction Act. There's also additional you know adders to tax credits if you buy American and these are real jobs. I mean so and and they're in red states so to turn over a piece of policy that you may just it's it falls under your political preference agenda as to less government. He certainly will do whatever is possible to repeal the work that this administration has done. Right? But what will the corporate market, capital markets, how will they respond to that? How does the industry respond to that? Because I mean, it's, it's just moving forward and the incentives are there. So, I think that it, it'll be an interesting landscape, but I can't even believe we're having this conversation about the one former president running against, you know, a former vice president who's now been in office and then, to be clear, the two of them can only be in office for four more years. Regardless of who they are, right? So, I mean, it's just, everyone keeps talking about their age difference, and I'm like, well, okay, here we are. But we really need to look at who's working for them, right? And hope that, that those are going to be the kind of influential parties, in my opinion.

Tom Raftery: 20:48

yeah, yeah, fair, fair. The, you mentioned the infrastructure bill and the, the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act. So have they had a big impact on your customers?

Emily Easley: 21:01

Sure. I mean, certainly. And I think, you know, you and I had early on kind of spoken to the history of policy and how it drives markets. I mean, you certainly saw that in Spain, right? We were talking about the, the feed in tariffs that the utilities and the government had gotten behind that essentially almost bankrupt them because developers and, and private companies are very, very savvy on loopholes and figuring out different ways to maximize profits. And so, you know, I think with the, both bills, I think are driving kind of new, innovative business models. You know, and that in its own right really, you know, stimulates new emerging industries. So the amount of just renewable penetration that's gone in the last 18 months is so significant. And what is critical to actually meet all of the new load demand from data centers, AI, now look at all these EVs. Direct air capture where that takes off, not to mention all of the electrification and we wanted all to be clean and all to be stable. There's some interesting opportunities that those developers, I think, that have been in the business for a long time, are coming up with as far as new ways to be more than an infra investment. And then, on top of that, you're seeing geothermal, like, in a way, you know, it, that, you know, alone is, like, a fascinating technology that's always been the one left behind, right? I mean, hydrogen was. Hydrogen was, like, it just got to the table two, three years ago. And and geothermal's always been there, too. But it's just the resource and the innovation about how you were gonna, kind of, utilize it is, is now breaking through. And that, to me, is what is exciting. Because I think, you know, you have a lot of different, capabilities at the table looking at these buckets of capital because they're motivated because they, they want to take advantage of this, but they're also bringing the best new kind of perspectives of ways to break through technologies that are not that new. They just haven't maybe been kind of overlapped in the way that they are now.

Tom Raftery: 23:19

Okay, geothermal is quite usually, just by definition of what it is, it's quite usually geolimited though, isn't it? There are only certain places where you can roll out geothermal.

Emily Easley: 23:32

Right. Well, but, I mean, and I don't claim to be an expert in this because we don't, we're just beginning to work on this, but in what what we're looking at, because with, with our clients, one of them is, we're their energy advisor, right? They need, they need 100%, 24 7 clean energy and they need a lot of it. And so looking at the work we did, we worked with thousands of utilities across the country in the 2000s and really, really learned regulated utility markets and the different aspects of the generation profiles. So the energy in those markets and then who regulates them beyond the state and then up to FERC. And so for, for this last mile of trying to meet the commitments that are really driven by a lot of these tech companies, geothermal that there's a, there's a handful of what is our companies that are looking to use oil and gas technology to break through. So it's enhanced, you know, it's enhanced I say geothermal systems, not enhanced oil recovery, because I don't want to give it a bad rap. But I think that this is like the most exciting convergent of the two technologies we've seen. However, there is it's fracking, right? They're breaking rock. They're creating the geothermal technology underground in new places. And that's what's innovative about it. But they're also using A. I. I mean, there's amazing cool things that are coming from it. I just don't know. I'm very curious of how the NGOs respond to this.

Tom Raftery: 25:05

Yeah. I guess a lot will ride on the grams CO2 per kilowatt hour. Which is kind of the metric you want to measure it against. Is this climate bad for want of a better, a better, a better word or is it good for the climate? If it's low grams, CO2 per kilowatt hour, then excellent. If it's high grams CO2, then then we go back to other renewables, solar and wind being the two main ones, I guess.

Emily Easley: 25:38

It's interesting. I, I, and I, I, we've worked quite a bit on kind of the carbon accounting of what is truly clean, green and how you measure that. And so, and it's, it's coming, I mean, it is still evolving, right? I mean, the way, what you just described, I think is really, an interesting calculation. There's multiple different iterations of these calculations, and there's no standard quite yet. But it is, there's demand for it to be, I mean, to be defined by GHG protocol is running a lot of their own, and it processes, and then, even if you look at just even the SEC climate disclosures and everything and I don't I don't mean to put anybody down for the work that the hard work they've done regarding this because it is a complex issue, right? I mean and I think that I the environmental impact of producing your widget is an important consideration because the customer ultimately should be paying for what that, right? So for too long we've had way too cheap things coming from places that we didn't know how they were made, who was making them, you know, and, and what they were being made with. And so I think that all of that is bubbled up and it is a consumer's right to understand how you're conducting your business. But from the climate disclosures, you know, while there's so much litigation right now that's going on, the states are all fighting back and certainly we'll have another iteration I assume that will come out in the next few months. But if you read behind the lines as to what was ruled that there's some good guidelines in there to say, okay, here's a framework that if I'm going to take and I don't want to get involved, and this is what we do with our clients is like, let the big guys fight DC and take that on and, but what can I take away from this that like I should be thinking about now? And how can I ensure that I'm not up against a, I need to make up for what I wasn't paying attention to, but if I can proactively say, okay, here's what these implications are, here's what the cost is going to potentially be for me as a company and a corporation to do conduct business. And then ultimately like you make the decision on how you are going to optimize your operations.

Tom Raftery: 27:52

Right. Right, right, right. And you talked in passing as well about the SEC's new rules. And they've been They were put out for comment about two years ago now, if I remember correctly. And when they came out with a request for comment on them first, back then, they talked about going out to scope three, they talked about them having to be audited, you know, so they were very robust and, you know, I kind of set up and went, whoa, this is impressive. It's going farther than any, anywhere in Europe. And so in the, following 24 months up to now, we've seen them gone back and gone back to your point, because there's been so much spent on lobbying and lawyers and so on and so on. There's been, I think it was one of the most commented on requests for comments that the SEC ever put out, if I read correctly. So where are we now?

Emily Easley: 28:49

Well, I, it's, I mean, back in, I think that the, it's back in litigation. So two weeks ago they announced kind of what the requirements were going to be, which had an immediate backlash. And from that scope three was highly, it was pretty much left out. There were some specifications around what industries were going to be more regulated, which I think is part of kind of the challenges here. And so, you know, for example, if you have a tech company that they They make money off of our data, right and we ultimately pay them to manage it down the line, it's a very different emission profile and environmental profile because scope 3 is huge for them, right? I mean and so trying to get to what they can claim as a carbon free energy business versus a fertilizer company that is truly actually making something, right? The, it, the, the treatment and the regulation around that, it, it, there's just, it, it cannot be the same and then go into the states have their own environmental rules around their requirements that have already, already been passed and authorized to them. So, it's very complex, but where I think it will continue to go and continue to evolve. Two years ago, I don't think anybody was even talking about Scope 3. I mean, four years ago, ESG was just, I mean, you know, coming to the table. I think it was five years ago, it was responsible investing, right? And so, I, you know, who knows where we'll be in, in the next five years, but I certainly think that you can take enough of these points to evaluate your business and what you want to focus on and where the liabilities are and risk. But but Europe has one of the most aggressive regulations around climate than any industry in the Globally, I mean, so I you know, we have a lot of federal oversight. I don't I don't know You know, do you see because I recently read that they've almost taken it too far and that there's pushback there, but I don't know. I mean, you know, who knows what you're reading. I'm curious of your perspective

Tom Raftery: 31:13

Sure, yeah, no, I mean you'll always get pushback when there are new regulations come out and we had CSRD be approved here recently, which is kind of the equivalent to the SEC rules we're talking about except they go further. And yeah, there, there, there is a little bit, or there has been a little bit of pushback as, as there always will be to, as I said, to new regulations, but my personal perspective is they, they don't go far enough because they don't mandate scope three to be audited. Now there,

Emily Easley: 31:41

Right.

Tom Raftery: 31:42

that will come, it will come here. It will come in the U. S. as well through the SEC eventually. As you said, four years ago, no one was talking about ESG. In four years, five years time, scope three will be part of the, the rules and regs, if not at the SEC level, at least at the state level. And, you know, beyond that, it'll become required to be reported with the same stringency as financial reporting is today, just because of where, where the climate is and the trend lines in climate, and it's getting more serious. So that that's, to my mind, that's the way things are going to go, maybe happen in Europe, likely happen in Europe before the U S.

Emily Easley: 32:18

Well, and, and, and there's a risk associated with it, right? I mean, so shareholders have a right to transparent information regarding where those, those risks are, or, you know, at least line of sight that they're investing in a company that has some expertise in it, I would say, you know, but it's interesting the geopolitical dynamic of how different these countries and are regulated by and, and how these markets are driven. But then, you know, we're building this entire energy industry of maximum production across all resources, which when I was in the business in 03, we weren't exporting oil. We weren't exporting natural gas we were certainly not exporting any renewable equipment yet. And so it's interesting in just 20 years to see where the US is as far as our energy economy and what we're poised to potentially be able to build not only within our country, but also abroad. You have to pay attention to all of the other policies, right? So for example, you know if you look at the LNG export It's not a ban, it's you know a pause but it's chaotic right? It's I mean it goes way upstream, to impact kind of looking at the environmental aspect of those projects and then if you're going to export what those countries are truly requiring to be defined to meet their thresholds. So, last year, you know, it was huge the last two years I guess i've been on building all this infrastructure to be able to support countries like Ukraine, Europe that you know, we have a lot of safer practices in the US and environmentally and labor, right? So, I mean I'm I'm all about you know, any US production, but we do have to recognize that like in order to sell to our allies. They have their own requirements too.

Tom Raftery: 34:18

Sure, sure. And in terms of manufacturing in the US that's on the rise at the moment, off the back, I gotta think of the the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act and the Infrastructure Act. Is that, is that helping, how is that affecting the energy space, I guess is, is the question I'm coming to?

Emily Easley: 34:38

Well, I mean, so, you know, the, the, the plans have just been, they're just breaking ground. Right? So, but the, the, the add ons to tax credits, let's take solar, for example, you know, if you have a solar project in a environmental justice community and create, you know, can create a really strong community engagement plan and use you know the labor requirements and buy american product like that tax package is I mean can be up to 70% of a tax credit for your project. Now having all of that add up and then meet the IRS requirements is challenging, right? I mean, so with, with federal money comes federal requirements. However, you know, I, I do think that there was, you know, so much historically that was kind of looked past as far as our products that were coming from China and, and, you know, there, you know, it's, it's a, It's, it has improved, the transparency has improved, but I do hear a lot of oil and gas companies pointing to why renewables are, you know, not clean and good because of China made panels. And we are addressing that by this U. S. manufacturing. You see a lot of foreign companies that are taking business and to the US for that very reason. So, it's exciting. I mean, I think that, you know, to to look at just the carbon footprint alone of a of a solar panel that is actually made in the US and then installed in the US like that carbon footprint right there to me was never really part of this clean equation but it's going to drive up prices. It just it naturally it was too cheap, right? And so but the tax credits are structured to kind of incentivize and offset that

Tom Raftery: 36:40

Cool. Cool. Cool. We are coming towards the end of the podcast now, Emily. Is there any questions that I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Emily Easley: 36:54

Well, I mean, I think you know I'll just follow up with our last conversation when we were discussing renewables and the growth and kind of I get this question a lot of hat, you know, is it too late? Right, like is it streamlined now? Has the have and and the amount of solar and wind that is going to be built out between now and 2030 is unbelievable. And so I think that the opportunities for you know, all industry to get behind the new technology and look at it from a more neutral perspective without political views is going to only create, you know, more profitable businesses. But I, I greatly appreciate the time, Tom. I always like hearing another perspective and especially connecting with you and and where you are in spain and just appreciate you know the opportunity to talk today

Tom Raftery: 37:45

you. One thing we didn't mention actually, now that I think about it is storage. Is that something that you're coming across as well? Because there's some projects in the U S and California in particular, where storage has played a big part. So the combination of renewables plus storage, is that, is that coming across your desk as well?

Emily Easley: 38:02

Absolutely, I mean I think that at this point in the game it would be surprising to see a project without a battery associated with it either that is part of the system or that is you know utilizing the land for what is a value add to the utility? But that I mean alone is unbelievable of how it is completely commercialized and scaled in a way that was the holy grail in the 2000s that every utility said once storage becomes kind of, affordable and reliable, then it changes everything. I think, you know, some of the new longer duration storage technologies that are out there are really important to watch. And now, I mean, I certainly think that, you know, batteries, wherever they are, are going to be what helps us get through all of the changing dynamics between demand and supply.

Tom Raftery: 39:03

yeah, yeah. I've had some interesting episodes dealing just with storage. I had one with a company that makes vanadium flow batteries, for example, which are ideal for utilities. And I had another with companies that make heat batteries, which are particularly useful for industry. For example, I've had two, two episodes on that. So no, it's, it's a fascinating space to keep an eye on. So cool, cool, cool.

Emily Easley: 39:26

It definitely is. I mean, the innovation that's going into the true engineering behind every across the the board is fascinating to me. We look at it from you know, the markets perspective and how those technologies either would impact an operation's ability to you know, really truly rely on it or in what the life cycle is, right? So I don't know I just it's it's gonna be an interesting few years to see which ones actually take off

Tom Raftery: 40:01

Definitely. Definitely. Emily, that's been fascinating. If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Emily Easley: 40:11

Hey, so you can find me on LinkedIn, Emily Easley. I'm always, you know, it's the easiest. And then Novus Energy Advisors, so N O V U S, energyadvisors. com is our website. And we're always looking to meet new people and talk about energy.

Tom Raftery: 40:25

Perfect. Tremendous. Emily, that's been fascinating. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Emily Easley: 40:30

Thank you, Tom. Have a good rest of the day

Tom Raftery: 40:32

Thanks. You too. Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about the Climate Confident podcast, feel free to drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you like the show, please don't forget to click follow on it in your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.