Elizabeth Thompson: 0:03

Everybody has the capacity to dream forward, to imagine a better future. It's an innate human capacity. Everyone can do it no matter who they are, no matter, no matter their experience. Many people experience barriers to, be able to really tap deeply into their imagination, but that the capacity is there in all human beings. At least that's the premise of visions 2030.

Tom Raftery: 0:34

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Climate Confident podcast, the number one podcast showcasing best practices in climate emission reductions and removals. And I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Don't forget to click follow on this podcast in your podcast app of choice to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode 181 of the climate confident podcast. I hope you didn't miss me too much. I've been out the last two weeks on vacation, but I'm back now refreshed. My name is Tom Raftery. And before we kick off today's show, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude. To all of this podcast, amazing supporters. Your support has been instrumental in keeping the podcast going, and I'm really grateful for each and every one of you. If you're not a supporter, I'd like to encourage you to consider joining our community of like-minded individuals who are passionate about climate. Supporting the podcast is easy and affordable with options starting as low as just three euros or dollars. That's less than the cost of a coffee and your support will make a huge difference in keeping the show going strong. To become a supporter. You simply click on the support link in the show notes of this, or any episode or visit tiny url.com/climate pod. In today's episode, I'm going to be talking to Elizabeth Thompson of visions 2030. And in upcoming episodes, I've got some really good ones lined up next week. I'll be talking to Gagan Dhillon from Synop about their platform for helping fleets go electric. The week after Shravan Kumar from Gramener about urban heat islands. The week after I'll be talking to Dev and Xavi from Mittilabs, and we'll be talking about. Rice. So that's one to look forward to. And the week after that, I'll be talking to Carina Gormley about policy and government. So that's also a good one to look forward to. But back to today's episode, as I said, I'm talking to Elizabeth, Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Elizabeth Thompson: 2:40

I very much am delighted to be here, Tom. Thank you so much for inviting me. I am Elizabeth Thompson, and I am currently serving as the director of a new initiative called Visions 2030.

Tom Raftery: 2:54

Okay. Superb. And before we get into what Visions 2030 is, can you give us a little bit about your kind of origin story? How did you get there?

Elizabeth Thompson: 3:07

Sure. I let's see. I guess I'll start the beginning of my professional career. I, I've really been interested and involved in, you know, the role that the arts, human creativity, technology, innovation play in shifting culture. And I started my career in experimental theater and contemporary art world. In the 1990s, I got very interested in sort of big picture ideas about cultural evolution and emerging technologies. The internet, everything was sort of exploding at that time. I was living in the bay area and started a nonprofit called planet work with some colleagues and we were, Looking at, you know, how might we be able to harness the global reach of the web and this new thing called social networks and the, you know, real burgeoning understanding of the global, global ecological crises. And we, we've sort of posited that there would be a, could be a meaningful connection between the two. And we were interested in how we could harness people as a kind of force for good and for global change. From there I went to the Buckminster Fuller Institute served there as the director for 15 years and that was really the context of the Buckminster Fuller Institute is the visionary imagination of Buckminster Fuller. So, and he, challenged the way people thought about the earth, our role as individuals, our creative capacities, our role as stewards. He used to, talk about you know, he used this analogy that we are on a spaceship called Earth hurtling through the galaxy at 64,000 miles an hour. And we are all it's astronauts and it's stewards. And we have the capacity to steer things in positive directions. So we were, we did a lot of things while I was there, but one of them was to really focus on the solutions that are out there and the people creating sort of systems based solutions to some of our biggest issues. And we started something called the Buckminster Fuller Challenge, which was an annual design competition that we were very proud to have it eventually be known as socially responsible design's highest award. And we ran that program for about 10 years. And So from there, I, I had sort of felt complete with my work there and was living in New York and working for a number of different nonprofits in the sustain, all in the kind of nexus of sustainability, education, culture, et cetera. And and then I met Carrie Lovelace, who was starting this initiative. Who had already started, actually Visions 2030. So,

Tom Raftery: 5:59

Okay. And

Elizabeth Thompson: 6:00

sort of started

Tom Raftery: 6:01

and, and what and what is it?

Elizabeth Thompson: 6:04

So it's a, it's a new initiative. It's based in New York. It's a nonprofit creative studio. It's dedicated to harnessing the artistic imagination to create new perspectives, focus on the solutions, to create a better future. So she was Carrie Lovelace is a, is a visionary producer. She's a playwright, a, an art critic has done many, many interesting things in her career. And she was interested in you know, gathering a group of people whose careers touched on this intersection of sustainability, global change, the arts, technology to sort of come together and create new platforms to counteract the kind of prevailing doom based culture of critique and despair. This was Hi Trump, 2019. We're hoping we're not going to go back there. And you know, she, she was really all about, you know, the the Imagination, the artistic imagination and how we need to create experiences and platforms for more people to tap into that wellspring to help us move forward in positive directions. You know, you know, we talked a lot when she called me about the, the, the, the reality that the collective human imagination is, it's like the greatest untapped resource of our time. There are, this is, this is really a power that that needs to be better harnessed. And you know, everybody has the capacity to dream forward, to imagine a better future. It's an innate human capacity. Everyone can do it no matter who they are, no matter, no matter their experience. Many people experience barriers to, to you know, be able to really tap deeply into their imagination, but that the capacity is there in all human beings. At least that's the premise of, of visions 2030. So

Tom Raftery: 8:19

okay. And to what end? What's the, end game or end goal? Why is it important for people to have that kind of positive imagination?

Elizabeth Thompson: 8:34

Really ultimately it's to get involved in in both the collective search for solutions in the need to put pressure on people at the highest levels of decision making about what we really want for the future, to be educated and informed about the great positive work that's going on out there, to invite and encourage people to be you know, agents of their own in their own lives, in their own communities of positive change. So we offer all kinds of different entry points for people to just begin to get inspired about what's possible both within their own selves and in their communities out and out in the, in the larger world. We offer workshops. We have an incubator program where we provide resources for people to take a, a, a kind of what Carrie likes to say, sort of a wild and crazy idea about for a solution to a big problem. And we incubate it. We provide financial resources and other kinds of resources to take the idea to the next level toward the possibility of it being implemented in the world. We hold public conversations, we've produced big festivals, et cetera. So, all, all within this sort of context of bringing together people from the arts, from the scientific community, thought leaders, people from the technology world, et cetera.

Tom Raftery: 10:12

Okay. And how do you. Maybe you can't, but how do you measure success in something like this?

Elizabeth Thompson: 10:22

Well, I think, you know, we spoke about this before we're in the business of sort of changing hearts and minds. And it's the data points on that are difficult to collect. But you know, as a kind of cultural intervention we are trying to shift people's attitudes and perceptions through experiences and exposure to, to new ideas and to experiments in in, opening the imagination and envisioning a better future. So we, we have taken polls of people before and after some of these installations and experiences that we've created. And we've seen a measurable difference in people's attitudes. And our hope is that they then bring that newfound optimism or renewed optimism about the future into their lives, into their communities and, and start being part of the solution.

Tom Raftery: 11:23

Okay, and part of the Visions 2030 is something called the Lumisphere experience. Could you describe for people what that is and how it is going to counter kind of, The climate doom loop?

Elizabeth Thompson: 11:42

Absolutely. So, You know, this is this project was very much born out of what I've just been talking about this desire to help shift people from a kind of state of shutdown and despair. Climate anxiety is a huge issue. Very pervasive state of many people today. And this project is was created to try to offer an antidote to that climate anxiety and the shutdown and despair that accompanies that and give people an experience that may help shift them to a more positive perspective about the future. You know, technically speaking, the lumisphere is a three dome installation. It's, it's it's footprint is about 6500 square feet. It's a large scale installation. It and it takes people on a kind of journey of the imagination through these three spheres. It starts with a sort of orientation, kind of digital earth campfire, which sort of situates us on the earth in the world. And begins to address the fear and anxiety that people are fear are feeling. People then move into a second environment where they are taken on sort of a spectacular, immersive, awe inspiring audio visual journey into sort of what we call the heart of their imaginations. And we ask people what they want for their own future and ask them to begin to imagine what that might, that future might look like. They then move into a third space where through bespoke AI technology, they are invited to create a visual rendering of the future that they want to see. They're given a bunch of prompts. An image is then rendered, which they then see on large screen sort of a gallery installation in that third dome and then from there they are invited into what we're calling sort of a mentoring zone where they are met by trained facilitators who help them sort of unpack their experience, talk about what it is that they see and want for the future and how they might be able to get involved in local initiatives that are taking some piece of that vision and already doing something about it in their own communities. So it's, it's, you know, we like to say it's sort of, we're doing three things with the Lumisphere where, where the first realm is about awakening the spirit, the imagination. Then we're asking people to sort of activate upon their vision for the future. And we give them tools and resources to do so. And then, then people have the opportunity to amplify their vision through social media et cetera, because they're, they are given a, an artifact, the, the image that they have rendered through through a social media platform, which they can share out to the world.

Tom Raftery: 14:54

Okay,

Elizabeth Thompson: 14:54

people want, want to sort of just, that was a complicated explanation. It's very difficult to explain it. If people want to check it out, if this, this seems interesting, they can go to the Visions 2030 website, which is visions2030. studio. and find the tab for the lumisphere and there's a beautiful what we call the sort of sizzle reel, which is a, a short piece, two minutes that takes you through the journey.

Tom Raftery: 15:23

Nice, nice. And what have the reactions from people who've experienced it been like? Do you have any memorable stories or feedback that you can share?

Elizabeth Thompson: 15:34

Well, first of all, the, experience of awe is an important kind of catalyst for people to kind of shake, shake themselves out of the, the, their current state. And you know, helps people kind of consider something new. If you've had a kind of awe inspiring experience, that's, that's you know, that's, that's documented in those, in the social sciences. So, people have, feedback is that they were awe inspired, that for many people being asked what they want for the future is both a novel experience, which is sort of interesting. There are not, there are not very many spaces, at least in the United States, where if you're just an average citizen where you can go and be asked, what do you want for the future? And to talk to other people about what they want for the future. And so just, and when you ask people that question, you're really inviting them to be quite vulnerable, actually. And so we've created a very safe space for people, we hope to feel open to really asking themselves, what the hell, what do I want for the future? What, what, what does that look like? And that experience for many people in and of itself has been moving and catalytic in, in, in some way for them to, to begin to imagine that perhaps they could get involved in their community to change things in positive ways. So, I mean, I, I, I spent so much of my life with people who, for whom, you know, imagining great possibilities is just second nature. And I forget, and I feel like many of us forget that for average people, that's not something that, that that they spend a lot of time doing, and we need everybody now to be part of a kind of army of the willing to, you know, to, you know, have something in their own minds that we're moving toward because that also is a motivating state of mind. And we need more and more people involved in both thinking about positive solutions, but importantly agitating and for they are elected officials and others in positions of leadership to make good decisions and and do what needs to be done to change things quickly.

Tom Raftery: 18:19

Sure. Sure, sure, sure. No, that makes sense. And can you tell us a bit about the Earth Optimism Movement and how it aligns with the goals of Vision 2030? And

Elizabeth Thompson: 18:30

So Earth Optimism, maybe some of your listeners aren't familiar with it. It's a relatively new movement that sort of started in the conservation space. But it's really ultimately about promoting a more positive outlook for the future. I think there's, I've just been talking about this, but there's sort of a growing recognition that we need to shift public perception, perception towards things that are working. You know, and there are many, many, many solutions out there to combat climate change. And you know, the, the earth optimism movement is about you know, shifting people to really understand that we do have an option for success. This is something that Fuller used to talk about all the time. You don't have to be optimistic. He called himself an optionist and from that perspective when you understand the data, you know, of both what the trends in technology and human intelligence, et cetera, are telling us and you do your research about all the solutions out there, you can really you know, you really understand that we do have the option to make it. This isn't some pie in the sky dream. We, we. It's the possibility is here right now. So the earth optimum optimism movement is you know, taking its cues from from people like Fuller and others,

Tom Raftery: 20:00

if people want to know more about it, where can they go to learn about the Earth Optimism

Elizabeth Thompson: 20:05

movement You just Google it or use your, whatever search engine you need. I, I, I think there's. I believe there's a URL called earthoptimism. org, but I, I

Tom Raftery: 20:17

Google's fine. Yeah.

Elizabeth Thompson: 20:18

just Google it. I

Tom Raftery: 20:22

We've seen climate change themes pop up in various TV shows and movies recently, like in Don't Look Up and to a lesser extent, I guess Avatar. How do you think pop culture can influence public perception and action on climate issues?

Elizabeth Thompson: 20:42

I think it has a huge role to play, you know, I think that, the more narratives you know, storytelling is the way in which we all, the way in which culture evolves and I think our, the movie and television industries have a, have a really important role to play and they're, I think the integration of climate stories that are, you know, we have doom scenarios, but I think, you know, the more stories that can be told both in a kind of fiction context, as well as the news and other outlets where we hear stories about innovation, people who are doing interesting things in their communities and in the larger world and the actual solutions, the better. So pop culture is a huge force for positive change.

Tom Raftery: 22:51

Sure, sure. Many artists and celebrities are using their platforms to advocate for climate action. Are there any particular artists or cultural figures that you think are doing an exceptional job at raising awareness and inspiring change?

Elizabeth Thompson: 23:05

Gosh. I'm going to get back to you on that one. I mean, there, there are, I, you know, I, my, there's too many ideas going in my head and it's, I'm drawing a blank, but there's yeah, I'll, I'll

Tom Raftery: 23:18

No worries. No worries. Let, let, let, let me, let me Let me throw a different one at you then. So if you could collaborate with any artist, living or dead, to create a project for Visions 2030, who would it be and what would that project look like?

Elizabeth Thompson: 23:34

So now I can answer your previous question. So Brian Eno has launched a new project. And the name of it, I believe, is called Hard Art. And have you heard of this?

Tom Raftery: 23:47

I have not.

Elizabeth Thompson: 23:48

It's, it's, so he is based in the UK, is has created sort of a, a, a new interdisciplinary studio of artists and other sort of activists to, you know, again, from from within the cultural sector create experiences and other kinds of, you know, I think he's probably created a web platform, no doubt an album to do something very similar to Visions 2030 which is to, you know, engage more and more people in a more proactive, optimistic framework about the big issues of our time. And you know, I would, It would be a dream to collaborate with Brian Eno and, and to participate in his Hard Art movement. And he's talking about the idea that the planet itself is a work of art, which is something that a number of different artists and thinkers from Joseph Beuys to Buckminster Fuller have talked about the planet as a work of art, our role as individuals, as that of an artist, because we need to tap into that level of our human capacity for creativity and innovation to create the world that we want. And, and so he's, he's you know, right now he did Brian Eno that is is galvanizing the artistic community to get involved in these issues. And I'm really fascinated to see what he's going to do.

Tom Raftery: 25:27

Brilliant. Brilliant. That's fantastic to hear. And when we talk about inspiring people, How can we better inspire and engage young people in the fight against climate change? Have you seen any cool projects or initiatives that in that case are being particularly effective?

Elizabeth Thompson: 25:47

Well, there's a young climate psychologist we haven't really dug into the sort of eco anxiety realm, but just to say if people are interested in that concept and I'll get to, answer your question in a second. But if people are interested in that concept it really sort of emerged in the early 1990s and was really championed by a British psychologist called Rosemary Randall. And she created something called the Climate Psychology Alliance. And there are a number of U. S. Based social scientists and psychologists It's just among the many is a, a friend and colleague, Renee Lertzman a brilliant psychologist named Leslie Davenport, and this young woman to answer your question named Britt Ray. And she has written a book called Generation Dread and has a blog and a a podcast, I believe called Gen Dread. And so she is really, absolutely focused on her generation of young people and helping both acknowledging the kind of overwhelming sense a sense of a burden about the future that young people have. It's and it's not just climate. It's, you know, our social justice issues, the economic issues that these are all interrelated as I don't have to tell you this, but her work is deeply inspiring because she's starting with a conversation about the felt reality that young people have for you know, being responsible for this future that they didn't create, that they're going to have to fix and change. And she uses a framework of joy and possibility. And is very much connected to musicians and artists who are also, trying to bring joy into the mix here. And a kind of positive outlook focused on solutions. So I, I highly recommend that people check out Brit Ray's work and the other people that I mentioned. It's really powerful stuff.

Tom Raftery: 28:04

Cool. That sounds great. I'll definitely be checking that out myself. Looking forward, what are the next big steps for Visions 2030? Are there any upcoming projects or events that, you know, you'd like people to be aware of?

Elizabeth Thompson: 28:19

Well, we are a couple things. One with the Lumisphere, we are in the process of developing a five year tour of that project. And in conversation with museums and cultural institutions around the world to bring the lumisphere to their sites as well as some sort of big global gatherings like Cop World Expos, the Olympics. These are all conversations that we're in the midst of having, as well as with the supporters and partners who will help us get there. And with Visions 2030 writ large, we're in the process of developing some programming around Climate Week in New York City in September and are developing some new workshops that we're calling Collective Dreaming to again, engage people at a smaller scale in this kind of active dreaming about the future that they want. So those will be workshops that will be available in person in New York and elsewhere alongside our, our big ambitions to scale the lumisphere project.

Tom Raftery: 29:32

Okay. And what happens to the Visions 2030 brand when we get to 2031?

Elizabeth Thompson: 29:41

When it sunsets, it will be rebranded. But I mean, obviously the the urgency around the sustainability, the sustainable development goals put forth by the UN is front of mind. And You know, our work right now is to, you know, really focus on playing some role, small as it might be, in helping to engage more people in, the very urgent need to get involved in climate solutions and educate themselves, advocate for visionary ideas, understand what they want for the future so that they can become an active agent in their own lives and in their communities.

Tom Raftery: 30:28

Okay. Looking back over all of the fascinating projects you've been involved in, what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned about driving systemic change?

Elizabeth Thompson: 30:40

I think education is so fundamental to making anything at a big scale happen. You know, you need, I mean, this is such a cliche, but you need to have as many people as possible educated about the realities of now and the possibilities for the future so that they can, ask for and put pressure on those who are leading us to do the hard work of looking at the fundamental problems at the heart of many of our systems. I'm not answering your question very succinctly or clearly, but you know, we need to transform our educational systems and the way in which we talk about and look at the big issues driving our, our, our world today. Systemic change starts from the capacity to understand we are part of a global system, that all of these issues are interrelated, and you need to be able to see that in a, in a way that connects the dots so that you can begin to imagine solutions that you know, don't create problems down the road that are anticipatory and comprehensive.

Tom Raftery: 32:04

It's a tough question. Systemic change is by definition challenging. So, yeah.

Elizabeth Thompson: 32:12

Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it is enough said. I don't know what else to say about it, but

Tom Raftery: 32:19

Elizabeth talking about people's imagination and the need to be optimistic. If we look at works of fiction generally. A lot of fiction books looking into the future tend to paint a dystopic future rather than a utopic future. Why do you think that is? And is that something that we can change? Can we get people to be more optimistic in their outlook on the future?

Elizabeth Thompson: 32:55

I would start by looking at who's writing science fiction novels, you know, that's a, that's a, it's a you know, I, I mean, not all science fiction is dystopic, but a lot of it is, and it's, it's, I can't give a history lesson in the origins of science fiction literature, but it's born out of, from my understanding, a kind of pervasive anxiety about the future, the future of technology it's, It's you know, from starting with Frankenstein and, and, you know, other science fiction novels, it's, it's an expression of and anxiety about technology, the future and the kind of growing industrialization in the West. I mean, I think that's, that is, that's not, that's a perspective that's not new at all. I think it's. primarily written by, by men. And but there are, there are writers who are tackling the future from a kind of sci fi perspective. I'm sure. Have you have you interviewed the author of the Ministry of the Future?

Tom Raftery: 34:04

Kim, Kim Stanley Robinson?

Elizabeth Thompson: 34:06

Yes. Kim Stanley Robinson is a perfect example of someone who's trying through that medium to both address the anxiety and also express you know, ideas about a deeper connection to the earth, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know if I'm answering your question to your satisfaction, but

Tom Raftery: 34:26

It's fine, it's fine. I guess it's kind of like the, the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek, isn't it? Because Star Wars is the one where you have an empire with an evil emperor and Star Trek is where you have kind of a more utopian future.

Elizabeth Thompson: 34:44

right. Yeah. That's a very good comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, you know, what? What, what, what is, what is in the, the, the psyche and the soul of the, the writers of those two epics? You know, it's, it's it's yeah, there, there, that's, those are outputs from the imaginations of those writers, right there. Yeah.

Tom Raftery: 35:14

We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Elizabeth. Is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Elizabeth Thompson: 35:27

I just think that you know, it's incumbent upon all of us at this very precarious moment to learn about the positive work that's being done and help others understand that there is a lot of work that's been done. We can dare to be hopeful about the future because we have these options. And that yes, it looks like, we're not going to make it, but at times, but you know, it's really going to require more and more of us to say, no, I, you know, we can thread this needle and and I'm going to be a part of it and I'm going to do whatever I can to change the way I'm behaving in my own life and help others in my community.

Tom Raftery: 36:18

Great. Elizabeth, that's been fascinating. If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we talked about in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Elizabeth Thompson: 36:29

To visions, 2030 dot studio.

Tom Raftery: 36:33

Short and sweet. Love it. Okay, great. Elizabeth, that's been fascinating. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Elizabeth Thompson: 36:39

Thank you so much for having me.

Tom Raftery: 36:41

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about the Climate Confident podcast, feel free to drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you like the show, please don't forget to click follow on it in your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.